Nick Land might be the most influential philosopher you’ve never heard of. If you’re reading this and have heard of them, congratulations, you’re in the elite techno bubble.
Land’s philosophy is hard for us mere mortals to make sense of.
I sat down with my friend, Matthew Southey, who has a PhD in religion from Rice University and wrote his dissertation on Land.
When Matt and I first met at Lighthaven, we each assumed the other was an accelerationist. I assumed it because he studied Land. He assumed it because of the people I was hanging out with. We were both wrong—and both worried about where AI could take us.
Matt explains Land’s version of accelerationism, why he sees AI and capitalism as parts of the same process, and why the optimistic version popular in Silicon Valley differs from Land’s vision of the future.
We also explore the esoteric side of Land’s thinking, including the idea of future artificial intelligences reaching back through time. Matt finds these ideas interesting without sharing Land’s certainty about what happens next.
The conversation also gets into Christianity. The Christian conception of God brings together power, knowledge, and goodness. What happens if we build something extraordinarily powerful and knowledgeable without making it good? Matt connects that question to AI alignment and explains why a “machine god” would fall short of God in the Christian sense.
Along the way, we discuss cryonics, the fear of suffering, Grimes’s interest in Land, and how to live a normal life while taking the possibility of AI catastrophe seriously.
Studying Land hasn’t made Matt an accelerationist. When I ask why he isn’t one, his answer is straightforward: he doesn’t want to die at the hands of machines.
“I hope in many ways Land is wrong, but I’m worried that he’s right.”
Timestamps
00:00 Why Nick Land?
02:10 Matt Southey’s background
03:39 Nick Land’s accelerationism explained
06:01 Silicon Valley’s fascination with Land
07:10 Why Matt isn’t an accelerationist
08:05 Future AI, esotericism, and the “lemurs”
12:03 The Dark Enlightenment and Land’s politics
14:51 Why e/acc misunderstands Land
17:15 Hope and the simulation hypothesis
19:11 Three kinds of accelerationism
19:46 Christianity and the “machine god”
21:36 Living with the threat of AI catastrophe
22:39 Favorite films and philosophical influences
24:14 Cryonics and the risk of suffering
25:34 Growing up Christian and the fear of hell
26:02 Jesus, heroes, and “Are you Christian?”
26:39 Techno-capitalism and Land’s predictions
28:32 Nick Land as a prophet and the dream of ascension
29:59 Why is Grimes so interested in Nick Land?
30:20 Christianity and AI alignment
31:14 Where Matt disagrees with Nick Land
32:29 Human values in a posthuman future
35:08 AI dreamers versus doomers
What do you think of Land?
If you enjoyed the conversation, share it with someone who’s curious about Nick Land, and subscribe for more interviews.
Where to find Matt
Matt’s site: https://southey.com/
Matt on X: https://x.com/southsouthey/
Had you heard of Nick Land before? What do you think of his philosophy?
Are you as worried about existential risk as Matt and I are? If you aren’t, why not?
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